What are some nice/clever ways to introduce the tonic's dominant seventh chord?












4















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago
















4















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago














4












4








4








I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







share|improve this question
















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period




theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 12 mins ago









user45266

3,4331734




3,4331734










asked 4 hours ago









Kim FierensKim Fierens

641610




641610








  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago














  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago








1




1





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
4 hours ago





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
4 hours ago













My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
3 hours ago





My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
3 hours ago




1




1





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
3 hours ago





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1














Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

    – Kim Fierens
    2 hours ago



















1














You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






share|improve this answer































    1














    One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



    The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81463%2fwhat-are-some-nice-clever-ways-to-introduce-the-tonics-dominant-seventh-chord%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago
















      1














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago














      1












      1








      1







      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer















      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 2 hours ago

























      answered 2 hours ago









      repletereplete

      2,403518




      2,403518













      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago



















      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago

















      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      2 hours ago





      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      2 hours ago











      1














      You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



      If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






      share|improve this answer




























        1














        You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



        If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






        share|improve this answer


























          1












          1








          1







          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






          share|improve this answer













          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 hours ago









          Laurence PayneLaurence Payne

          36.2k1669




          36.2k1669























              1














              One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



              The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer




























                1














                One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer


























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here






                  share|improve this answer













                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 hours ago









                  RichardRichard

                  43.1k699186




                  43.1k699186






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid …



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81463%2fwhat-are-some-nice-clever-ways-to-introduce-the-tonics-dominant-seventh-chord%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      -

                      Popular posts from this blog

                      الفوسفات في المغرب

                      Image
                      قطار ينقل فوسفات من منطقة خريبكة متجه نحو الدار البيضاء. ديار عمال بمصانع الفوسفات بمدينة آسفي. المحتوى هنا ينقصه الاستشهاد بمصادر. يرجى إيراد مصادر موثوق بها. أي معلومات غير موثقة يمكن التشكيك بها وإزالتها. (أغسطس 2015) الفوسفات في المغرب هو ثالث مصدر عالمي للفوسفات، ويتوفر المغرب على %75 من الاحتياطي العالمي  [بحاجة لمصدر] ويتوزع بنسب متفاوتة بين عدة مناطق أساسية وهي: وادي زم بن جرير بوكراع خريبكة اليوسفية أولاد عبدون كنتور واد الذهب مستقلة. هذه الأخيرة لم تفتح بعد للاستغلال. الصادرات الحامض الفوسفوري P205 تمتص الهند %50 من ا لصادرات الإجمالية آسيا (دون روسيا)%59 أوروبا %30 أمريكا اللاتينية %11 أسمدة صلبة أوروبا 38 % أمريكا اللاتينية %30 آسيا (دون روسيا) 22 % أستراليا 9 % بوابة المغرب هذه بذرة مقالة عن علم الاقتصاد أو موضوع متعلق به بحاجة للتوسيع. شارك في تحريرها. This page is only for reference, If you need detailed information, please check here
                      Read more

                      Four equal circles intersect: What is the area of the small shaded portion and its height

                      Image
                      3 $begingroup$ In terms of $R$ which is the radius of all four circles, what is the area of the intersection region of these four equal circles and the height of the marked arrow in the figure? The marked arrow is along the line CD, also the midpoint of all the circles are points A, B, C and D. Looking for a very short intuitive solution. I have checked similar questions on this site for example this and this. geometry circle share | cite | improve this question edited 2 hours ago Abdulhameed asked 2 hours ago ...
                      Read more

                      جامعة ليفربول

                      Image
                      جامعة ليفربول University of Liverpool الأسماء السابقة كلية ليفربول الجامعية (1882-1884) جامعة فيكتوريا في ليفربول (1884-1903) معلومات التأسيس 1882 (منذ 137 سنة) الإنتماءات رابطة الجامعات الأوروبية مجموعة راسل جامعات القرميد الأحمر المنحة المالية 143.5 مليون £ النوع جامعة عامة الكليات 6 الموقع الجغرافي إحداثيات 53°24′22″N 2°58′01″W  /  53.406°N 2.967°W  / 53.406; -2.967   المدينة ليفربول المكان   إنجلترا البلد   المملكة المتحدة رقم الهاتف 7942000 151 (44+) إحصاءات الطلاب 17,405 (سنة 2008) عضوية مجموعة رسل [1] أورسيد [2]   طلاب الدراسات العليا 3,860 الموقع www.liverpool.ac.uk تعديل   جامعة ليفربول مبنى فكتوريا جامعة ليفربول (بالإنجليزية: The University of Liverpool )) إحدى الجامعات البريطانية العريقة، تقع في مدينة ليفربول على الساحل الشمالي الغربي من أنجلترا . وهي عضو في مجموعة راسل للجامعات وتعتبر من ضمن جامعات الطوب الأحمر الستة. محتويات ...
                      Read more