How is the relation “the smallest element is the same” reflexive?
$begingroup$
Let $mathcal{X}$ be the set of all nonempty subsets of the set ${1,2,3,...,10}$. Define the relation $mathcal{R}$ on $mathcal{X}$ by: $forall A, B in mathcal{X}, A mathcal{R} B$ iff the smallest element of $A$ is equal to the smallest element of $B$. For example, ${1,2,3} mathcal{R} {1,3,5,8}$ because the smallest element of ${1,2,3}$ is $1$ which is also the smallest element of ${1,3,5,8}$.
Prove that $mathcal{R}$ is an equivalence relation on $mathcal{X}$.
From my understanding, the definition of reflexive is:
$$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
However, for this problem, you can have the relation with these two sets:
${1}$ and ${1,2}$
Then wouldn't this not be reflexive since $2$ is not in the first set, but is in the second set?
I'm having trouble seeing how this is reflexive. Getting confused by the definition here.
discrete-mathematics elementary-set-theory relations equivalence-relations
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $mathcal{X}$ be the set of all nonempty subsets of the set ${1,2,3,...,10}$. Define the relation $mathcal{R}$ on $mathcal{X}$ by: $forall A, B in mathcal{X}, A mathcal{R} B$ iff the smallest element of $A$ is equal to the smallest element of $B$. For example, ${1,2,3} mathcal{R} {1,3,5,8}$ because the smallest element of ${1,2,3}$ is $1$ which is also the smallest element of ${1,3,5,8}$.
Prove that $mathcal{R}$ is an equivalence relation on $mathcal{X}$.
From my understanding, the definition of reflexive is:
$$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
However, for this problem, you can have the relation with these two sets:
${1}$ and ${1,2}$
Then wouldn't this not be reflexive since $2$ is not in the first set, but is in the second set?
I'm having trouble seeing how this is reflexive. Getting confused by the definition here.
discrete-mathematics elementary-set-theory relations equivalence-relations
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $mathcal{X}$ be the set of all nonempty subsets of the set ${1,2,3,...,10}$. Define the relation $mathcal{R}$ on $mathcal{X}$ by: $forall A, B in mathcal{X}, A mathcal{R} B$ iff the smallest element of $A$ is equal to the smallest element of $B$. For example, ${1,2,3} mathcal{R} {1,3,5,8}$ because the smallest element of ${1,2,3}$ is $1$ which is also the smallest element of ${1,3,5,8}$.
Prove that $mathcal{R}$ is an equivalence relation on $mathcal{X}$.
From my understanding, the definition of reflexive is:
$$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
However, for this problem, you can have the relation with these two sets:
${1}$ and ${1,2}$
Then wouldn't this not be reflexive since $2$ is not in the first set, but is in the second set?
I'm having trouble seeing how this is reflexive. Getting confused by the definition here.
discrete-mathematics elementary-set-theory relations equivalence-relations
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
$endgroup$
Let $mathcal{X}$ be the set of all nonempty subsets of the set ${1,2,3,...,10}$. Define the relation $mathcal{R}$ on $mathcal{X}$ by: $forall A, B in mathcal{X}, A mathcal{R} B$ iff the smallest element of $A$ is equal to the smallest element of $B$. For example, ${1,2,3} mathcal{R} {1,3,5,8}$ because the smallest element of ${1,2,3}$ is $1$ which is also the smallest element of ${1,3,5,8}$.
Prove that $mathcal{R}$ is an equivalence relation on $mathcal{X}$.
From my understanding, the definition of reflexive is:
$$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
However, for this problem, you can have the relation with these two sets:
${1}$ and ${1,2}$
Then wouldn't this not be reflexive since $2$ is not in the first set, but is in the second set?
I'm having trouble seeing how this is reflexive. Getting confused by the definition here.
discrete-mathematics elementary-set-theory relations equivalence-relations
discrete-mathematics elementary-set-theory relations equivalence-relations
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
edited 43 mins ago
Martin Sleziak
45k10122277
45k10122277
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
asked 12 hours ago
qbufferqbuffer
625
625
4
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Why are you testing reflexivity by looking at two different elements of $mathcal{X}$? The definition of reflexivity says that a relation is reflexive iff each element of $mathcal X$ is in relation with itself.
To check whether $mathcal R$ is reflexive, just take one element of $mathcal X$, let's call it $x$. Then check whether $x$ is in relation with $x$. Because $x=x$, the smallest element of $x$ is equal to the smallest element of $x$. Thus, by definition of $mathcal R$, $x$ is in relation with $x$. Now, prove that this is true for all $x in mathcal X$. Of course, this is true because $min(x) = min(x)$ is always true, which is intuitive. In other words, $x mathcal{R} x$ for all $x in mathcal X$, which is exactly what you needed to prove that $mathcal R$ is reflexive.
You must understand that the definition of reflexivity says nothing about whether different elements (say $x,y$, $xneq y$) can be in the relation $mathcal R$. The fact that ${1}mathcal R {1,2}$ does not contradict the fact that ${1,2}mathcal R {1,2}$ as well.
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A binary relation $R$ over a set $mathcal{X}$ is reflexive if every element of $mathcal{X}$ is related to itself. The more formal definition has already been given by you, i.e. $$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
Note here that you've picked two different elements of the set to make your comparison when you should be comparing an element with itself. Also make sure you understand that an element may be related to other elements as well, reflexivity does not forbid that. It just says that every element must be related to itself.
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3178532%2fhow-is-the-relation-the-smallest-element-is-the-same-reflexive%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Why are you testing reflexivity by looking at two different elements of $mathcal{X}$? The definition of reflexivity says that a relation is reflexive iff each element of $mathcal X$ is in relation with itself.
To check whether $mathcal R$ is reflexive, just take one element of $mathcal X$, let's call it $x$. Then check whether $x$ is in relation with $x$. Because $x=x$, the smallest element of $x$ is equal to the smallest element of $x$. Thus, by definition of $mathcal R$, $x$ is in relation with $x$. Now, prove that this is true for all $x in mathcal X$. Of course, this is true because $min(x) = min(x)$ is always true, which is intuitive. In other words, $x mathcal{R} x$ for all $x in mathcal X$, which is exactly what you needed to prove that $mathcal R$ is reflexive.
You must understand that the definition of reflexivity says nothing about whether different elements (say $x,y$, $xneq y$) can be in the relation $mathcal R$. The fact that ${1}mathcal R {1,2}$ does not contradict the fact that ${1,2}mathcal R {1,2}$ as well.
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why are you testing reflexivity by looking at two different elements of $mathcal{X}$? The definition of reflexivity says that a relation is reflexive iff each element of $mathcal X$ is in relation with itself.
To check whether $mathcal R$ is reflexive, just take one element of $mathcal X$, let's call it $x$. Then check whether $x$ is in relation with $x$. Because $x=x$, the smallest element of $x$ is equal to the smallest element of $x$. Thus, by definition of $mathcal R$, $x$ is in relation with $x$. Now, prove that this is true for all $x in mathcal X$. Of course, this is true because $min(x) = min(x)$ is always true, which is intuitive. In other words, $x mathcal{R} x$ for all $x in mathcal X$, which is exactly what you needed to prove that $mathcal R$ is reflexive.
You must understand that the definition of reflexivity says nothing about whether different elements (say $x,y$, $xneq y$) can be in the relation $mathcal R$. The fact that ${1}mathcal R {1,2}$ does not contradict the fact that ${1,2}mathcal R {1,2}$ as well.
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why are you testing reflexivity by looking at two different elements of $mathcal{X}$? The definition of reflexivity says that a relation is reflexive iff each element of $mathcal X$ is in relation with itself.
To check whether $mathcal R$ is reflexive, just take one element of $mathcal X$, let's call it $x$. Then check whether $x$ is in relation with $x$. Because $x=x$, the smallest element of $x$ is equal to the smallest element of $x$. Thus, by definition of $mathcal R$, $x$ is in relation with $x$. Now, prove that this is true for all $x in mathcal X$. Of course, this is true because $min(x) = min(x)$ is always true, which is intuitive. In other words, $x mathcal{R} x$ for all $x in mathcal X$, which is exactly what you needed to prove that $mathcal R$ is reflexive.
You must understand that the definition of reflexivity says nothing about whether different elements (say $x,y$, $xneq y$) can be in the relation $mathcal R$. The fact that ${1}mathcal R {1,2}$ does not contradict the fact that ${1,2}mathcal R {1,2}$ as well.
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
$endgroup$
Why are you testing reflexivity by looking at two different elements of $mathcal{X}$? The definition of reflexivity says that a relation is reflexive iff each element of $mathcal X$ is in relation with itself.
To check whether $mathcal R$ is reflexive, just take one element of $mathcal X$, let's call it $x$. Then check whether $x$ is in relation with $x$. Because $x=x$, the smallest element of $x$ is equal to the smallest element of $x$. Thus, by definition of $mathcal R$, $x$ is in relation with $x$. Now, prove that this is true for all $x in mathcal X$. Of course, this is true because $min(x) = min(x)$ is always true, which is intuitive. In other words, $x mathcal{R} x$ for all $x in mathcal X$, which is exactly what you needed to prove that $mathcal R$ is reflexive.
You must understand that the definition of reflexivity says nothing about whether different elements (say $x,y$, $xneq y$) can be in the relation $mathcal R$. The fact that ${1}mathcal R {1,2}$ does not contradict the fact that ${1,2}mathcal R {1,2}$ as well.
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
edited 10 hours ago
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
answered 12 hours ago
Haris GusicHaris Gusic
3,331526
3,331526
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A binary relation $R$ over a set $mathcal{X}$ is reflexive if every element of $mathcal{X}$ is related to itself. The more formal definition has already been given by you, i.e. $$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
Note here that you've picked two different elements of the set to make your comparison when you should be comparing an element with itself. Also make sure you understand that an element may be related to other elements as well, reflexivity does not forbid that. It just says that every element must be related to itself.
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A binary relation $R$ over a set $mathcal{X}$ is reflexive if every element of $mathcal{X}$ is related to itself. The more formal definition has already been given by you, i.e. $$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
Note here that you've picked two different elements of the set to make your comparison when you should be comparing an element with itself. Also make sure you understand that an element may be related to other elements as well, reflexivity does not forbid that. It just says that every element must be related to itself.
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A binary relation $R$ over a set $mathcal{X}$ is reflexive if every element of $mathcal{X}$ is related to itself. The more formal definition has already been given by you, i.e. $$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
Note here that you've picked two different elements of the set to make your comparison when you should be comparing an element with itself. Also make sure you understand that an element may be related to other elements as well, reflexivity does not forbid that. It just says that every element must be related to itself.
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
$endgroup$
A binary relation $R$ over a set $mathcal{X}$ is reflexive if every element of $mathcal{X}$ is related to itself. The more formal definition has already been given by you, i.e. $$mathcal{R} text{ is reflexive iff } forall x in mathcal{X}, x mathcal{R} x$$
Note here that you've picked two different elements of the set to make your comparison when you should be comparing an element with itself. Also make sure you understand that an element may be related to other elements as well, reflexivity does not forbid that. It just says that every element must be related to itself.
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
answered 12 hours ago
s0ulr3aper07s0ulr3aper07
658112
658112
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3178532%2fhow-is-the-relation-the-smallest-element-is-the-same-reflexive%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
4
$begingroup$
Reflexive means that every element is related to itself. Thus, for reflexivity you have to consider one set only. Ok, we have that ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$ but we have also ${ 1 } mathcal R { 1 }$ and ${ 1,2 } mathcal R { 1,2 }$
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
12 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
Note: “reflexive” does not mean that if $x$ is related to $y$, then $x=y$. It means that if $x=y$, then $x$ is related to $y$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
So it must be reflexive because both $A$ and $B$ belong to the same set $mathcal{X}$?
$endgroup$
– qbuffer
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@qbuffer Have a look at the updated version of my answer.
$endgroup$
– Haris Gusic
10 hours ago