Is ipsum/ipsa/ipse a third person pronoun, or can it serve other functions?












3















This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



Thanks in advance.






pronomina personal-pronouns







share|improve this question









New contributor




Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

























    3















    This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



    How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



    In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



    Thanks in advance.






    pronomina personal-pronouns







    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      3












      3








      3








      This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



      How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



      In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



      Thanks in advance.






      pronomina personal-pronouns







      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



      How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



      In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



      Thanks in advance.






      pronomina personal-pronouns




      pronomina personal-pronouns






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 5 hours ago









      Joonas Ilmavirta♦

      49.1k1271287




      49.1k1271287






      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 5 hours ago









      Sola GratiaSola Gratia

      1362




      1362




      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3














          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            5 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago



















          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            2 hours ago












          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "644"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });






          Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9440%2fis-ipsum-ipsa-ipse-a-third-person-pronoun-or-can-it-serve-other-functions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3














          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            5 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago
















          3














          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            5 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago














          3












          3








          3







          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer















          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 hours ago

























          answered 5 hours ago









          Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta

          49.1k1271287




          49.1k1271287








          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            5 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago














          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            5 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            5 hours ago








          1




          1





          That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

          – Sola Gratia
          5 hours ago





          That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

          – Sola Gratia
          5 hours ago













          @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          5 hours ago





          @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          5 hours ago




          1




          1





          I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

          – Sola Gratia
          5 hours ago





          I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

          – Sola Gratia
          5 hours ago











          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            2 hours ago
















          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            2 hours ago














          2












          2








          2







          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer













          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 4 hours ago









          DraconisDraconis

          18.2k22475




          18.2k22475













          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            2 hours ago



















          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            2 hours ago

















          I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          2 hours ago





          I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          2 hours ago










          Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













          Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












          Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















          Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid …



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9440%2fis-ipsum-ipsa-ipse-a-third-person-pronoun-or-can-it-serve-other-functions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          -

          Popular posts from this blog

          SQL Server 17 - Attemping to backup to remote NAS but Access is denied

          Image
          .everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0; } 0 I was attemping to use Ola Hallengrens scripts to backup to a remote NAS, but it was failing and not giving any direct errors, so I tried doing it manually using Server Management Studio and got the following error: TITLE: Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Failed to retrieve data for this request. (Microsoft.SqlServer.Management.Sdk.Sfc) For help, click: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink?ProdName=Microsoft%20SQL%20Server&LinkId=20476 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: An exception occurred while executing a Transact-SQL statement or batch. (Microsoft.SqlServer.ConnectionInfo) The operating system returned the error '0x80070005(Access is denied.)&#
          Read more

          Always On Availability groups resolving state after failover - Remote harden of transaction...

          Image
          0 My explanation will be opinion based as it is based on my findings. If more information is needed, I am always happy to add it. The setup We have 4 SQL Server 2016 Instances, and all 4 underlying servers are in a WSFC (In my eyes a strange setup since Always On AG's are 2 by 2. But that is a different question.) 4 nodes + Fileshare witness Version: 13.0.5026.0 (all nodes) The instances that are having the failover issues are instances 1 & 2. They have 3 AG's between them. AG1 is primary on instance 1 and is having the issue. AG2 and AG3 are primary on instance 2. Instances 3 and 4 have their own separate AG's (2). AG1's settings The week before Last week, after checking for long running queries (none) and the synchronization state (green accross the board) we initiated a
          Read more

          Restoring from pg_dump with foreign key constraints

          Image
          5 2 In restoring a database from a pg_dump , a number of errors are being generated and the whole table is subsequently being ignored. An example: ERROR: insert or update on table "channelproducts" violates foreign key constraint "fk_rails_dfaae373a5" DETAIL: Key (channel_id)=(1) is not present in table "channels". Interestingly enough, I've noted that all these instances are popping up because of the sequence of loading. channels is after channelproducts both alphabetically and in the file and thus I can understand why postgres complains about having to create a child without a parent. caveat: the foreign key is being generated automatically by rails 4.2: I could remove the problem at the source but that still does not really solve the problem... version: PostgreSQL
          Read more