How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent...












5















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











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  • 1





    Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    5 hours ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    4 hours ago


















5















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











share|improve this question




















  • 1





    Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    5 hours ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    4 hours ago
















5












5








5








How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











share|improve this question
















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}








hebrew genesis translation-philosophy kjv






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited 5 hours ago









Der Übermensch

3,026328




3,026328










asked 5 hours ago









InfinitelyManicInfinitelyManic

1916




1916








  • 1





    Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    5 hours ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    4 hours ago
















  • 1





    Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    5 hours ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    4 hours ago










1




1





Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

– Nigel J
5 hours ago





Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

– Nigel J
5 hours ago













@NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

– InfinitelyManic
5 hours ago





@NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

– InfinitelyManic
5 hours ago




1




1





I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

– Nigel J
4 hours ago







I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

– Nigel J
4 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0














Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



It helps me to phrase it a little like this



Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.



What I don’t think it means is, ignore






share|improve this answer

































    4














    The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



    According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




    There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




    The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



    Hence, the phrase




    וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




    would be translated as,




    And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




    or




    And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.




    In summary, it is a Hebrew idiom,3 since, as you stated in your comment, we [English-speakers] do not speak in this manner. While it can be translated verbatim into English, it would be nonsensical, hence it must be interpreted. Gesenius discusses the occurrences of this phrase and its meaning when translated into English. (Unfortunately, I do not think Gesenius really requires further clarification. Simply read what he is saying. Focus particularly on the bold-faced elements.)





    Footnotes



    1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
    2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




    II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




    3idiom (n.): a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.



    References



    Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

      – InfinitelyManic
      2 hours ago













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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
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    Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



    Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



    Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



    So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



    It helps me to phrase it a little like this



    Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
    Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
    Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



    I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



    Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.



    What I don’t think it means is, ignore






    share|improve this answer






























      0














      Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



      Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



      Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



      So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



      It helps me to phrase it a little like this



      Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
      Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
      Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



      I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



      Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.



      What I don’t think it means is, ignore






      share|improve this answer




























        0












        0








        0







        Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



        Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



        Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



        So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



        It helps me to phrase it a little like this



        Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
        Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
        Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



        I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



        Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.



        What I don’t think it means is, ignore






        share|improve this answer















        Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



        Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



        Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



        So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



        It helps me to phrase it a little like this



        Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
        Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
        Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



        I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



        Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.



        What I don’t think it means is, ignore







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 4 hours ago

























        answered 4 hours ago









        Mr ConstantinMr Constantin

        43211




        43211























            4














            The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



            According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




            There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




            The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



            Hence, the phrase




            וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




            would be translated as,




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




            or




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.




            In summary, it is a Hebrew idiom,3 since, as you stated in your comment, we [English-speakers] do not speak in this manner. While it can be translated verbatim into English, it would be nonsensical, hence it must be interpreted. Gesenius discusses the occurrences of this phrase and its meaning when translated into English. (Unfortunately, I do not think Gesenius really requires further clarification. Simply read what he is saying. Focus particularly on the bold-faced elements.)





            Footnotes



            1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
            2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




            II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




            3idiom (n.): a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.



            References



            Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






            share|improve this answer


























            • Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

              – InfinitelyManic
              2 hours ago


















            4














            The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



            According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




            There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




            The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



            Hence, the phrase




            וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




            would be translated as,




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




            or




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.




            In summary, it is a Hebrew idiom,3 since, as you stated in your comment, we [English-speakers] do not speak in this manner. While it can be translated verbatim into English, it would be nonsensical, hence it must be interpreted. Gesenius discusses the occurrences of this phrase and its meaning when translated into English. (Unfortunately, I do not think Gesenius really requires further clarification. Simply read what he is saying. Focus particularly on the bold-faced elements.)





            Footnotes



            1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
            2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




            II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




            3idiom (n.): a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.



            References



            Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






            share|improve this answer


























            • Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

              – InfinitelyManic
              2 hours ago
















            4












            4








            4







            The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



            According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




            There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




            The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



            Hence, the phrase




            וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




            would be translated as,




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




            or




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.




            In summary, it is a Hebrew idiom,3 since, as you stated in your comment, we [English-speakers] do not speak in this manner. While it can be translated verbatim into English, it would be nonsensical, hence it must be interpreted. Gesenius discusses the occurrences of this phrase and its meaning when translated into English. (Unfortunately, I do not think Gesenius really requires further clarification. Simply read what he is saying. Focus particularly on the bold-faced elements.)





            Footnotes



            1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
            2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




            II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




            3idiom (n.): a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.



            References



            Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






            share|improve this answer















            The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



            According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




            There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




            The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



            Hence, the phrase




            וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




            would be translated as,




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




            or




            And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.




            In summary, it is a Hebrew idiom,3 since, as you stated in your comment, we [English-speakers] do not speak in this manner. While it can be translated verbatim into English, it would be nonsensical, hence it must be interpreted. Gesenius discusses the occurrences of this phrase and its meaning when translated into English. (Unfortunately, I do not think Gesenius really requires further clarification. Simply read what he is saying. Focus particularly on the bold-faced elements.)





            Footnotes



            1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
            2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




            II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




            3idiom (n.): a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.



            References



            Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.







            share|improve this answer














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            edited 2 hours ago

























            answered 5 hours ago









            Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch

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            • Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

              – InfinitelyManic
              2 hours ago





















            • Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

              – InfinitelyManic
              2 hours ago



















            Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

            – InfinitelyManic
            2 hours ago







            Can you perhaps provide a summary of your answer (i.e., citation); which still leaves a bit of vagueness to the English-only speaker since since we simply don't speak in this manner.

            – InfinitelyManic
            2 hours ago




















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