Calculate the number of points of an elliptic curve in medium Weierstrass form over finite field












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Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










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$endgroup$

















    5












    $begingroup$


    Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$


      Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.







      number-theory elliptic-curves






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      asked 5 hours ago









      NickyNicky

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          2 Answers
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          $begingroup$

          Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



          magma code



               F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
          C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
          t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
          P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

          for k in [2..10] do
          Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
          Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
          [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
          end for;


          To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



          Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
          $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$





















            0












            $begingroup$

            This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
            $$
            E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
            $$

            In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
            $alpha,overline{alpha}$
            (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
            $$
            alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
            $$

            The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



            The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
            $$
            |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
            $$



            For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
            implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













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              2 Answers
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              4












              $begingroup$

              Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



              magma code



                   F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
              C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
              t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
              P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

              for k in [2..10] do
              Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
              Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
              [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
              end for;


              To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



              Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
              $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                magma code



                     F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                for k in [2..10] do
                Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                end for;


                To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                  magma code



                       F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                  C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                  t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                  P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                  for k in [2..10] do
                  Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                  Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                  [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                  end for;


                  To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                  Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                  $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                  magma code



                       F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                  C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                  t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                  P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                  for k in [2..10] do
                  Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                  Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                  [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                  end for;


                  To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                  Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                  $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited 47 mins ago

























                  answered 4 hours ago









                  reunsreuns

                  20.7k21148




                  20.7k21148























                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                      $$
                      E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                      $$

                      In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                      $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                      (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                      $$
                      alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                      $$

                      The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                      The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                      $$
                      |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                      $$



                      For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                      implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                        $$
                        E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                        $$

                        In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                        $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                        (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                        $$
                        alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                        $$

                        The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                        The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                        $$
                        |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                        $$



                        For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                        implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                          $$
                          E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                          $$

                          In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                          $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                          (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                          $$
                          alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                          $$

                          The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                          The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                          $$
                          |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                          $$



                          For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                          implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                          $$
                          E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                          $$

                          In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                          $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                          (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                          $$
                          alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                          $$

                          The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                          The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                          $$
                          |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                          $$



                          For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                          implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 20 mins ago









                          Jyrki LahtonenJyrki Lahtonen

                          109k13170377




                          109k13170377






























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