Can the Witch Sight warlock invocation see through the Mirror Image spell?












21












$begingroup$


I came across a bizarre instance where a Pact Blade Warlock with the Witch Sight invocation ended up fighting several lower-level mages, a few of which cast Mirror Image. The Warlock claimed that Witch Sight saw through these false images so that he could see the true mages only.



The Mirror Image spell says:




A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight.




The Witch Sight eldritch invocation says:




You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




As the mages are not technically concealing themselves with Mirror Image, I am unsure whether Witch Sight can see through the illusory images, as it only shows you the "true form" of the creature or shapechanger "concealed" by illusion.






dnd-5e spells warlock eldritch-invocations







share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – theCerealKillr
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
    $endgroup$
    – TheCentaur
    8 hours ago
















21












$begingroup$


I came across a bizarre instance where a Pact Blade Warlock with the Witch Sight invocation ended up fighting several lower-level mages, a few of which cast Mirror Image. The Warlock claimed that Witch Sight saw through these false images so that he could see the true mages only.



The Mirror Image spell says:




A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight.




The Witch Sight eldritch invocation says:




You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




As the mages are not technically concealing themselves with Mirror Image, I am unsure whether Witch Sight can see through the illusory images, as it only shows you the "true form" of the creature or shapechanger "concealed" by illusion.






dnd-5e spells warlock eldritch-invocations







share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – theCerealKillr
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
    $endgroup$
    – TheCentaur
    8 hours ago














21












21








21


2



$begingroup$


I came across a bizarre instance where a Pact Blade Warlock with the Witch Sight invocation ended up fighting several lower-level mages, a few of which cast Mirror Image. The Warlock claimed that Witch Sight saw through these false images so that he could see the true mages only.



The Mirror Image spell says:




A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight.




The Witch Sight eldritch invocation says:




You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




As the mages are not technically concealing themselves with Mirror Image, I am unsure whether Witch Sight can see through the illusory images, as it only shows you the "true form" of the creature or shapechanger "concealed" by illusion.






dnd-5e spells warlock eldritch-invocations







share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I came across a bizarre instance where a Pact Blade Warlock with the Witch Sight invocation ended up fighting several lower-level mages, a few of which cast Mirror Image. The Warlock claimed that Witch Sight saw through these false images so that he could see the true mages only.



The Mirror Image spell says:




A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight.




The Witch Sight eldritch invocation says:




You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




As the mages are not technically concealing themselves with Mirror Image, I am unsure whether Witch Sight can see through the illusory images, as it only shows you the "true form" of the creature or shapechanger "concealed" by illusion.






dnd-5e spells warlock eldritch-invocations




dnd-5e spells warlock eldritch-invocations






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




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edited 38 mins ago









V2Blast

23.7k378150




23.7k378150










asked 11 hours ago









TheCentaurTheCentaur

1728




1728












  • $begingroup$
    I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – theCerealKillr
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
    $endgroup$
    – TheCentaur
    8 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – theCerealKillr
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
    $endgroup$
    – TheCentaur
    8 hours ago
















$begingroup$
I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
$endgroup$
– theCerealKillr
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
I think I have to disagree with your assertion that Mirror Image is not "concealing" the caster. From the text: "The duplicates [... shift] position so it's impossible to track which image is real." The whole point of the spell is to conceal the true location of the caster, so that they are harder to hit.
$endgroup$
– theCerealKillr
9 hours ago












$begingroup$
Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
$endgroup$
– TheCentaur
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Notice that I said "technically". In this way, I meant that they are not actively covering the caster from plain view, but rather misleading this Warlock by shifting around. Hence, they are not concealing the mages in a traditional fashion. Also, I simply shared that I was unsure about the concealment. If I were certain, I would never had asked my question
$endgroup$
– TheCentaur
8 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

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23












$begingroup$

Yes, Witch Sight sees through Mirror Image



Mirror Image is illusion magic, which Witch Sight sees through. While not concealing them in the same way Invisibility might, it is concealing them in the same way that hiding in a crowd would (the common definition of conceal being: "keep from sight; hide"). Thus, they should be able to see the real creature for what they are, by seeing the false ones for what they are not.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$

    No, Witch Sight can't see through mirror image



    In the last part of Mirror Image's description, it says (emphasis mine):




    A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies
    on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive
    illusions as false, as with truesight    .




    Witch Sight is not a sense to be relied on - rather, it augments the sense of sight:




    You can see the true form of any Shapechanger or creature concealed by Illusion or Transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




    So the remaining condition is whether or not it allows perception of "illusions as false, as with truesight".



    Truesight is described as follows:




    A creature with Truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical Darkness, see Invisible creatures and Objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on Saving Throws against them, and perceives the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.




    This description explicitly gives Truesight the feature "automatically detect visual illusions" in addition to the ability to perceive "the original form of a Shapechanger or creature", the latter of which is almost a word-for-word copy of Witch Sight.



    In summary: Truesight sees through Mirror Image because it can "perceive illusions as false", due to its ability to "automatically detect visual illusions". Witch Sight can only "see the true form", and thus cannot see through Mirror Image. If a Shapechanger used Mirror Image, Witch Sight would see duplicates of the Shapechanger's true form, but would still see the duplicates.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






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      Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
      $endgroup$
      – Peregrine Lennert
      2 hours ago



















    -2












    $begingroup$

    Yes, because of this text:




    if it relies on senses other than sight




    Witch Sight is like Blindsight in this case, it's an extrasensory augmentation, and sees through Mirror Image






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
      $endgroup$
      – Rykara
      7 hours ago











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    3 Answers
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    3 Answers
    3






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    active

    oldest

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    23












    $begingroup$

    Yes, Witch Sight sees through Mirror Image



    Mirror Image is illusion magic, which Witch Sight sees through. While not concealing them in the same way Invisibility might, it is concealing them in the same way that hiding in a crowd would (the common definition of conceal being: "keep from sight; hide"). Thus, they should be able to see the real creature for what they are, by seeing the false ones for what they are not.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      23












      $begingroup$

      Yes, Witch Sight sees through Mirror Image



      Mirror Image is illusion magic, which Witch Sight sees through. While not concealing them in the same way Invisibility might, it is concealing them in the same way that hiding in a crowd would (the common definition of conceal being: "keep from sight; hide"). Thus, they should be able to see the real creature for what they are, by seeing the false ones for what they are not.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        23












        23








        23





        $begingroup$

        Yes, Witch Sight sees through Mirror Image



        Mirror Image is illusion magic, which Witch Sight sees through. While not concealing them in the same way Invisibility might, it is concealing them in the same way that hiding in a crowd would (the common definition of conceal being: "keep from sight; hide"). Thus, they should be able to see the real creature for what they are, by seeing the false ones for what they are not.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Yes, Witch Sight sees through Mirror Image



        Mirror Image is illusion magic, which Witch Sight sees through. While not concealing them in the same way Invisibility might, it is concealing them in the same way that hiding in a crowd would (the common definition of conceal being: "keep from sight; hide"). Thus, they should be able to see the real creature for what they are, by seeing the false ones for what they are not.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 11 hours ago









        Mwr247Mwr247

        2,3731122




        2,3731122

























            3












            $begingroup$

            No, Witch Sight can't see through mirror image



            In the last part of Mirror Image's description, it says (emphasis mine):




            A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies
            on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive
            illusions as false, as with truesight            .




            Witch Sight is not a sense to be relied on - rather, it augments the sense of sight:




            You can see the true form of any Shapechanger or creature concealed by Illusion or Transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




            So the remaining condition is whether or not it allows perception of "illusions as false, as with truesight".



            Truesight is described as follows:




            A creature with Truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical Darkness, see Invisible creatures and Objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on Saving Throws against them, and perceives the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.




            This description explicitly gives Truesight the feature "automatically detect visual illusions" in addition to the ability to perceive "the original form of a Shapechanger or creature", the latter of which is almost a word-for-word copy of Witch Sight.



            In summary: Truesight sees through Mirror Image because it can "perceive illusions as false", due to its ability to "automatically detect visual illusions". Witch Sight can only "see the true form", and thus cannot see through Mirror Image. If a Shapechanger used Mirror Image, Witch Sight would see duplicates of the Shapechanger's true form, but would still see the duplicates.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






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            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
              $endgroup$
              – Peregrine Lennert
              2 hours ago
















            3












            $begingroup$

            No, Witch Sight can't see through mirror image



            In the last part of Mirror Image's description, it says (emphasis mine):




            A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies
            on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive
            illusions as false, as with truesight            .




            Witch Sight is not a sense to be relied on - rather, it augments the sense of sight:




            You can see the true form of any Shapechanger or creature concealed by Illusion or Transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




            So the remaining condition is whether or not it allows perception of "illusions as false, as with truesight".



            Truesight is described as follows:




            A creature with Truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical Darkness, see Invisible creatures and Objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on Saving Throws against them, and perceives the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.




            This description explicitly gives Truesight the feature "automatically detect visual illusions" in addition to the ability to perceive "the original form of a Shapechanger or creature", the latter of which is almost a word-for-word copy of Witch Sight.



            In summary: Truesight sees through Mirror Image because it can "perceive illusions as false", due to its ability to "automatically detect visual illusions". Witch Sight can only "see the true form", and thus cannot see through Mirror Image. If a Shapechanger used Mirror Image, Witch Sight would see duplicates of the Shapechanger's true form, but would still see the duplicates.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






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            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
              $endgroup$
              – Peregrine Lennert
              2 hours ago














            3












            3








            3





            $begingroup$

            No, Witch Sight can't see through mirror image



            In the last part of Mirror Image's description, it says (emphasis mine):




            A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies
            on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive
            illusions as false, as with truesight            .




            Witch Sight is not a sense to be relied on - rather, it augments the sense of sight:




            You can see the true form of any Shapechanger or creature concealed by Illusion or Transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




            So the remaining condition is whether or not it allows perception of "illusions as false, as with truesight".



            Truesight is described as follows:




            A creature with Truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical Darkness, see Invisible creatures and Objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on Saving Throws against them, and perceives the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.




            This description explicitly gives Truesight the feature "automatically detect visual illusions" in addition to the ability to perceive "the original form of a Shapechanger or creature", the latter of which is almost a word-for-word copy of Witch Sight.



            In summary: Truesight sees through Mirror Image because it can "perceive illusions as false", due to its ability to "automatically detect visual illusions". Witch Sight can only "see the true form", and thus cannot see through Mirror Image. If a Shapechanger used Mirror Image, Witch Sight would see duplicates of the Shapechanger's true form, but would still see the duplicates.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$



            No, Witch Sight can't see through mirror image



            In the last part of Mirror Image's description, it says (emphasis mine):




            A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies
            on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive
            illusions as false, as with truesight            .




            Witch Sight is not a sense to be relied on - rather, it augments the sense of sight:




            You can see the true form of any Shapechanger or creature concealed by Illusion or Transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.




            So the remaining condition is whether or not it allows perception of "illusions as false, as with truesight".



            Truesight is described as follows:




            A creature with Truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical Darkness, see Invisible creatures and Objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on Saving Throws against them, and perceives the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.




            This description explicitly gives Truesight the feature "automatically detect visual illusions" in addition to the ability to perceive "the original form of a Shapechanger or creature", the latter of which is almost a word-for-word copy of Witch Sight.



            In summary: Truesight sees through Mirror Image because it can "perceive illusions as false", due to its ability to "automatically detect visual illusions". Witch Sight can only "see the true form", and thus cannot see through Mirror Image. If a Shapechanger used Mirror Image, Witch Sight would see duplicates of the Shapechanger's true form, but would still see the duplicates.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 37 mins ago









            V2Blast

            23.7k378150




            23.7k378150






            New contributor




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            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered 2 hours ago









            ap55ap55

            391




            391




            New contributor




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            New contributor





            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            Check out our Code of Conduct.












            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
              $endgroup$
              – Peregrine Lennert
              2 hours ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
              $endgroup$
              – Peregrine Lennert
              2 hours ago
















            $begingroup$
            Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
            $endgroup$
            – Peregrine Lennert
            2 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Welcome to RPG.SE! Be sure to check out the tour and the help center if you have any questions.
            $endgroup$
            – Peregrine Lennert
            2 hours ago











            -2












            $begingroup$

            Yes, because of this text:




            if it relies on senses other than sight




            Witch Sight is like Blindsight in this case, it's an extrasensory augmentation, and sees through Mirror Image






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$









            • 1




              $begingroup$
              It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
              $endgroup$
              – Rykara
              7 hours ago
















            -2












            $begingroup$

            Yes, because of this text:




            if it relies on senses other than sight




            Witch Sight is like Blindsight in this case, it's an extrasensory augmentation, and sees through Mirror Image






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$









            • 1




              $begingroup$
              It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
              $endgroup$
              – Rykara
              7 hours ago














            -2












            -2








            -2





            $begingroup$

            Yes, because of this text:




            if it relies on senses other than sight




            Witch Sight is like Blindsight in this case, it's an extrasensory augmentation, and sees through Mirror Image






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Yes, because of this text:




            if it relies on senses other than sight




            Witch Sight is like Blindsight in this case, it's an extrasensory augmentation, and sees through Mirror Image







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 7 hours ago









            MarkTOMarkTO

            3,924938




            3,924938








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
              $endgroup$
              – Rykara
              7 hours ago














            • 1




              $begingroup$
              It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
              $endgroup$
              – Rykara
              7 hours ago








            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
            $endgroup$
            – Rykara
            7 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            It's not clear to me that witch sight is a "different" sense than sight and not just an improved version of the sense of sight. I think you arrive at the correct answer but I'm not sure the argument is correct. Maybe you could provide more supporting evidence?
            $endgroup$
            – Rykara
            7 hours ago


















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