Intuitive reasoning that a function can't exist












16












$begingroup$


Sorry for the title; I had no idea how to make it concise yet informative.



I want to intuitively argue that there is no function with some properties, and find it tricky to explain it to someone who just understands that derivatives are representative of increase rates of a function.



Here is the statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the first, second and third derivative of $f(x)$ are strictly positive on $x>0$.




I appreciate any help!










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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
    $endgroup$
    – Eelvex
    yesterday






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – SvanN
    yesterday
















16












$begingroup$


Sorry for the title; I had no idea how to make it concise yet informative.



I want to intuitively argue that there is no function with some properties, and find it tricky to explain it to someone who just understands that derivatives are representative of increase rates of a function.



Here is the statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the first, second and third derivative of $f(x)$ are strictly positive on $x>0$.




I appreciate any help!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
    $endgroup$
    – Eelvex
    yesterday






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – SvanN
    yesterday














16












16








16


2



$begingroup$


Sorry for the title; I had no idea how to make it concise yet informative.



I want to intuitively argue that there is no function with some properties, and find it tricky to explain it to someone who just understands that derivatives are representative of increase rates of a function.



Here is the statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the first, second and third derivative of $f(x)$ are strictly positive on $x>0$.




I appreciate any help!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Sorry for the title; I had no idea how to make it concise yet informative.



I want to intuitively argue that there is no function with some properties, and find it tricky to explain it to someone who just understands that derivatives are representative of increase rates of a function.



Here is the statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the first, second and third derivative of $f(x)$ are strictly positive on $x>0$.




I appreciate any help!







real-analysis functions






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited yesterday









SvanN

2,0071422




2,0071422










asked yesterday









Math-funMath-fun

7,0881527




7,0881527








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
    $endgroup$
    – Eelvex
    yesterday






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – SvanN
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
    $endgroup$
    – Eelvex
    yesterday






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – SvanN
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
$f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
$endgroup$
– Eelvex
yesterday




$begingroup$
$f''' > 0$ means that it grows at least as fast as $x^3$ but then it will be $f > x^2$ in either $[0,1]$ or $[1,infty]$.
$endgroup$
– Eelvex
yesterday




14




14




$begingroup$
@Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
$endgroup$
– SvanN
yesterday




$begingroup$
@Eelvex I would be careful with that: $f''' > 0$ need not imply that $f''' > varepsilon$ for some constant $varepsilon > 0$.
$endgroup$
– SvanN
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















39












$begingroup$

I do not think it is true. Take for example




  • $f(x) = 1 - x + frac12x^2 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'(x) = - 1 + x + e^{-x}$

  • $f''(x) = 1 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'''(x) = e^{-x}$


Here is a graph: note that the black line for $x^2$ is above the dark blue line for $f(x)$, while the green line for $f''(x)$ stays below $1$ while the second derivative of $x^2$ is $2$, and the red line for $f'''(x)$ tends towards $0$ from above as $x$ increases



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday



















12












$begingroup$

Your intuition is correct for a slightly different statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the third derivative of $f(x)$ is bounded below by some $epsilon > 0$ on $x>0$.




The argument is as follows: Suppose that such a function exists. Then we have $f'''(x) geq epsilon$, which means that (integrating both sides)
$$
f''(x) - f''(0) geq epsilon x.
$$

Denote $f''(0) = a$, so that $f''(x) geq epsilon x + a$. Integrating two more times, we have
$$
f'(x) geq frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x + f'(0) = frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x
$$
$$
f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + a x^2 + f(0) = frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

But if $f(x) < x^2$, we have
$$
x^2 > f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

for all $x > 0$, which reduces to
$$
frac{6(1 - a/2)}{epsilon} > x.
$$

for all $x > 0$. For any value of $epsilon > 0$ and $a in mathbb{R}$, this will be violated by some $x > 0$, and we have a contradiction.



Intuitionally: if the third derivative is always at least some value, then we know that the function has to grow at least as fast as $frac{1}{6} x^3$ times that value. But any function that grows as fast as $x^3$ (times any positive number) must have a greater value than $x^2$ at some point.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday



















8












$begingroup$

As in the first answer and comment by Daniel, we can choose any $f'''$ that is positive as long as its definite integral out to infinity is finite and smaller than 2. then we back up, each function is the definite integral from $0.$



$$ f'''(x) = frac{1}{1+x^2} $$
$$ f''(x) = arctan x $$
$$ f'(x) = x arctan x - frac{1}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) $$
$$ f(x) = left( frac{x^2 -1}{2} right) arctan x - frac{x}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) + frac{x}{2}$$



As $f'' < frac{pi}{2},$ we get $$f'(x) = int_0^x f''(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi }{2} dt = frac{pi x}{2}$$
$$f(x) = int_0^x f'(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi t}{2} dt = frac{pi x^2}{4}$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









39












$begingroup$

I do not think it is true. Take for example




  • $f(x) = 1 - x + frac12x^2 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'(x) = - 1 + x + e^{-x}$

  • $f''(x) = 1 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'''(x) = e^{-x}$


Here is a graph: note that the black line for $x^2$ is above the dark blue line for $f(x)$, while the green line for $f''(x)$ stays below $1$ while the second derivative of $x^2$ is $2$, and the red line for $f'''(x)$ tends towards $0$ from above as $x$ increases



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday
















39












$begingroup$

I do not think it is true. Take for example




  • $f(x) = 1 - x + frac12x^2 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'(x) = - 1 + x + e^{-x}$

  • $f''(x) = 1 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'''(x) = e^{-x}$


Here is a graph: note that the black line for $x^2$ is above the dark blue line for $f(x)$, while the green line for $f''(x)$ stays below $1$ while the second derivative of $x^2$ is $2$, and the red line for $f'''(x)$ tends towards $0$ from above as $x$ increases



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday














39












39








39





$begingroup$

I do not think it is true. Take for example




  • $f(x) = 1 - x + frac12x^2 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'(x) = - 1 + x + e^{-x}$

  • $f''(x) = 1 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'''(x) = e^{-x}$


Here is a graph: note that the black line for $x^2$ is above the dark blue line for $f(x)$, while the green line for $f''(x)$ stays below $1$ while the second derivative of $x^2$ is $2$, and the red line for $f'''(x)$ tends towards $0$ from above as $x$ increases



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



I do not think it is true. Take for example




  • $f(x) = 1 - x + frac12x^2 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'(x) = - 1 + x + e^{-x}$

  • $f''(x) = 1 - e^{-x}$

  • $f'''(x) = e^{-x}$


Here is a graph: note that the black line for $x^2$ is above the dark blue line for $f(x)$, while the green line for $f''(x)$ stays below $1$ while the second derivative of $x^2$ is $2$, and the red line for $f'''(x)$ tends towards $0$ from above as $x$ increases



enter image description here







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









HenryHenry

99.2k478164




99.2k478164








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday








3




3




$begingroup$
Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
yesterday




$begingroup$
Analytically, once you verify $f(0) = f'(0) = f''(0) = 0$ then $f'''(x) > 0$ for $x>0$ implies $f''(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f'(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$, which implies $f(x) > 0$ for $x > 0$. Whereas $f''(x) < 1$ for $x > 0$ along with the initial conditions implies $f'(x) < x$ for $x > 0$, implying $f(x) < frac{1}{2} x^2$ for $x > 0$.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
yesterday




1




1




$begingroup$
@DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
$endgroup$
– Henry
yesterday




$begingroup$
@DanielSchepler - yes indeed. Choosing $f''(x)=1-e^{-x}$ was the key to the counterexample, though there will be others with $f''(0)=0$ then increasing to less than $2$
$endgroup$
– Henry
yesterday




2




2




$begingroup$
Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday




$begingroup$
Many thanks for this counter example which together with other very nice hints makes the issue clear to me!
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday











12












$begingroup$

Your intuition is correct for a slightly different statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the third derivative of $f(x)$ is bounded below by some $epsilon > 0$ on $x>0$.




The argument is as follows: Suppose that such a function exists. Then we have $f'''(x) geq epsilon$, which means that (integrating both sides)
$$
f''(x) - f''(0) geq epsilon x.
$$

Denote $f''(0) = a$, so that $f''(x) geq epsilon x + a$. Integrating two more times, we have
$$
f'(x) geq frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x + f'(0) = frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x
$$
$$
f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + a x^2 + f(0) = frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

But if $f(x) < x^2$, we have
$$
x^2 > f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

for all $x > 0$, which reduces to
$$
frac{6(1 - a/2)}{epsilon} > x.
$$

for all $x > 0$. For any value of $epsilon > 0$ and $a in mathbb{R}$, this will be violated by some $x > 0$, and we have a contradiction.



Intuitionally: if the third derivative is always at least some value, then we know that the function has to grow at least as fast as $frac{1}{6} x^3$ times that value. But any function that grows as fast as $x^3$ (times any positive number) must have a greater value than $x^2$ at some point.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday
















12












$begingroup$

Your intuition is correct for a slightly different statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the third derivative of $f(x)$ is bounded below by some $epsilon > 0$ on $x>0$.




The argument is as follows: Suppose that such a function exists. Then we have $f'''(x) geq epsilon$, which means that (integrating both sides)
$$
f''(x) - f''(0) geq epsilon x.
$$

Denote $f''(0) = a$, so that $f''(x) geq epsilon x + a$. Integrating two more times, we have
$$
f'(x) geq frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x + f'(0) = frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x
$$
$$
f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + a x^2 + f(0) = frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

But if $f(x) < x^2$, we have
$$
x^2 > f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

for all $x > 0$, which reduces to
$$
frac{6(1 - a/2)}{epsilon} > x.
$$

for all $x > 0$. For any value of $epsilon > 0$ and $a in mathbb{R}$, this will be violated by some $x > 0$, and we have a contradiction.



Intuitionally: if the third derivative is always at least some value, then we know that the function has to grow at least as fast as $frac{1}{6} x^3$ times that value. But any function that grows as fast as $x^3$ (times any positive number) must have a greater value than $x^2$ at some point.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday














12












12








12





$begingroup$

Your intuition is correct for a slightly different statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the third derivative of $f(x)$ is bounded below by some $epsilon > 0$ on $x>0$.




The argument is as follows: Suppose that such a function exists. Then we have $f'''(x) geq epsilon$, which means that (integrating both sides)
$$
f''(x) - f''(0) geq epsilon x.
$$

Denote $f''(0) = a$, so that $f''(x) geq epsilon x + a$. Integrating two more times, we have
$$
f'(x) geq frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x + f'(0) = frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x
$$
$$
f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + a x^2 + f(0) = frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

But if $f(x) < x^2$, we have
$$
x^2 > f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

for all $x > 0$, which reduces to
$$
frac{6(1 - a/2)}{epsilon} > x.
$$

for all $x > 0$. For any value of $epsilon > 0$ and $a in mathbb{R}$, this will be violated by some $x > 0$, and we have a contradiction.



Intuitionally: if the third derivative is always at least some value, then we know that the function has to grow at least as fast as $frac{1}{6} x^3$ times that value. But any function that grows as fast as $x^3$ (times any positive number) must have a greater value than $x^2$ at some point.






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$endgroup$



Your intuition is correct for a slightly different statement:




There is no function $f(x)$ on $x ge 0$ such that $f(0)=0$, $f'(0)=0$, $f(x)<x^2$ for $x>0$ and that the third derivative of $f(x)$ is bounded below by some $epsilon > 0$ on $x>0$.




The argument is as follows: Suppose that such a function exists. Then we have $f'''(x) geq epsilon$, which means that (integrating both sides)
$$
f''(x) - f''(0) geq epsilon x.
$$

Denote $f''(0) = a$, so that $f''(x) geq epsilon x + a$. Integrating two more times, we have
$$
f'(x) geq frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x + f'(0) = frac{1}{2} epsilon x^2 + a x
$$
$$
f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + a x^2 + f(0) = frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

But if $f(x) < x^2$, we have
$$
x^2 > f(x) geq frac{1}{6} epsilon x^3 + frac{1}{2} a x^2
$$

for all $x > 0$, which reduces to
$$
frac{6(1 - a/2)}{epsilon} > x.
$$

for all $x > 0$. For any value of $epsilon > 0$ and $a in mathbb{R}$, this will be violated by some $x > 0$, and we have a contradiction.



Intuitionally: if the third derivative is always at least some value, then we know that the function has to grow at least as fast as $frac{1}{6} x^3$ times that value. But any function that grows as fast as $x^3$ (times any positive number) must have a greater value than $x^2$ at some point.







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share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered yesterday









Michael SeifertMichael Seifert

4,877625




4,877625












  • $begingroup$
    You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday


















  • $begingroup$
    You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday
















$begingroup$
You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday




$begingroup$
You are indeed right. Given the other counter example and the comments I guess I understood this issue :-) +1
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday











8












$begingroup$

As in the first answer and comment by Daniel, we can choose any $f'''$ that is positive as long as its definite integral out to infinity is finite and smaller than 2. then we back up, each function is the definite integral from $0.$



$$ f'''(x) = frac{1}{1+x^2} $$
$$ f''(x) = arctan x $$
$$ f'(x) = x arctan x - frac{1}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) $$
$$ f(x) = left( frac{x^2 -1}{2} right) arctan x - frac{x}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) + frac{x}{2}$$



As $f'' < frac{pi}{2},$ we get $$f'(x) = int_0^x f''(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi }{2} dt = frac{pi x}{2}$$
$$f(x) = int_0^x f'(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi t}{2} dt = frac{pi x^2}{4}$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday
















8












$begingroup$

As in the first answer and comment by Daniel, we can choose any $f'''$ that is positive as long as its definite integral out to infinity is finite and smaller than 2. then we back up, each function is the definite integral from $0.$



$$ f'''(x) = frac{1}{1+x^2} $$
$$ f''(x) = arctan x $$
$$ f'(x) = x arctan x - frac{1}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) $$
$$ f(x) = left( frac{x^2 -1}{2} right) arctan x - frac{x}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) + frac{x}{2}$$



As $f'' < frac{pi}{2},$ we get $$f'(x) = int_0^x f''(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi }{2} dt = frac{pi x}{2}$$
$$f(x) = int_0^x f'(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi t}{2} dt = frac{pi x^2}{4}$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday














8












8








8





$begingroup$

As in the first answer and comment by Daniel, we can choose any $f'''$ that is positive as long as its definite integral out to infinity is finite and smaller than 2. then we back up, each function is the definite integral from $0.$



$$ f'''(x) = frac{1}{1+x^2} $$
$$ f''(x) = arctan x $$
$$ f'(x) = x arctan x - frac{1}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) $$
$$ f(x) = left( frac{x^2 -1}{2} right) arctan x - frac{x}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) + frac{x}{2}$$



As $f'' < frac{pi}{2},$ we get $$f'(x) = int_0^x f''(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi }{2} dt = frac{pi x}{2}$$
$$f(x) = int_0^x f'(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi t}{2} dt = frac{pi x^2}{4}$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



As in the first answer and comment by Daniel, we can choose any $f'''$ that is positive as long as its definite integral out to infinity is finite and smaller than 2. then we back up, each function is the definite integral from $0.$



$$ f'''(x) = frac{1}{1+x^2} $$
$$ f''(x) = arctan x $$
$$ f'(x) = x arctan x - frac{1}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) $$
$$ f(x) = left( frac{x^2 -1}{2} right) arctan x - frac{x}{2} log left(1+x^2 right) + frac{x}{2}$$



As $f'' < frac{pi}{2},$ we get $$f'(x) = int_0^x f''(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi }{2} dt = frac{pi x}{2}$$
$$f(x) = int_0^x f'(t) dt < int_0^x frac{pi t}{2} dt = frac{pi x^2}{4}$$







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered yesterday









Will JagyWill Jagy

102k5101199




102k5101199












  • $begingroup$
    I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday


















  • $begingroup$
    I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
    $endgroup$
    – Math-fun
    yesterday
















$begingroup$
I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday




$begingroup$
I will check the functional forms soon, this looks quite interesting! +1
$endgroup$
– Math-fun
yesterday


















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